Anaheim pushing expensive, slow monorail option as part of OCTA's Go Local program

It will never happen. They may talk about it for a couple years, maybe even publish a dozen or two power point presentations, but that's about it. This will end up like every other transit project in OC - in the trash.

Curt Pringle, the mayor of Anaheim, seems to be pulling all the right strings lately. He's chair of the California High Speed Rail Authority, he's been able to get a mega-renovated Anaheim Station — ARTIC — funded (I think), and he's on OCTA's Board of Directors. And he's a Republican, which means he's got more clout here in Orange County and in Sacramento. I wouldn't underestimate him.

Thanks to Steven's excellent analysis, I have officially become an opponent of this project.

Actually, it's a pretty crappy project even for what it wants to do. It doesn't go to the Disneyland Hotel. It doesn't actually go to Disneyland, but Garden Walk and the mythical third gate (no guarantee at this time that it's actually going to happen). For $500 million you could fund a rapid bus that doesn't the same thing. You could fund station link buses that meet with every single Amtrak and Metrolink train. You could call it something tourists would like, and still have money left for over for real bus service.

This is not "Go Local," as it won't benefit the everyday riders of Orange County. I doubt it would be that much more convenient for Disneyland cast members as there are already station link buses that go directly to the Harbor Blvd. stop next to Harbor Point (the entrance for cast members). That's closer than the fixed guideway stop.

I'd like to see Anaheim install a streetcar system similar to the one in Portland Oregon. It could cost as little as $5 million per mile. The $500 million budget should be enough to cover the cost of a system that would connect all of the resort area to ARTIC. Give the streetcars their own dedicated lanes and signal priority and it should operate at a decent speed.

Sorry, can't give away traffic lanes to streetcars in Orange County.

By the way, in that BRT alignment, Gene Autry Way does not cross I-5, so that's not even a viable alignment unless you build a bridge for it, which drives up the cost.

Why wouldn't you put BRT down Katella? They are widening the goddamn thing anyway but they can't put a bus on the street?

In general, I would support some kind of fixed-guideway project in the "Platinum Triangle" area due to the sheet number of offices and apartments that are supposed to be built there. Having easy, fast access to and from ARTIC would hopefully encourage people that move or get jobs in the Platinum Triangle to take Metrolink. The cost would have to be reasonable though, and it doesn't seem to be the case for this plan.

I'm not sure where the $500 million comes from, but that's definitely way too much money- that's half as much as CenterLine for 3.5 lousy miles. I had originally heard around $200 million quoted some kind of elevated rail which I thought was high already. If the system were longer and actually connected to other high-traffic areas like Centerline was supposed to, rather than just the Metrolink station, a higher cost could be justified. I honestly think that the whole "Go Local" concept is a bad idea anyway because it relies on transfers to and from Metrolink to get anywhere, and we all know how transfers can totally kill the efficiency of public transportation without high frequency.

Seeing as how there is already a lot of ART (Anaheim Resort transit) service in the area, I also wonder how much faster a BRT system would really be over such a short distance. Maybe it would be significant if the BRT buses were in dedicated lanes, but of course that could be done for the existing ART or OCTA buses too.

Most of the money is coming from the City of Anaheim and Go Local is supplementing it I believe. Who knows.

Damon, forget the Fixed Guideway Plan. Put a rapid bus line on Katella Ave. with a stop at Katella & Douglas, Katella & St. College and Katella & Harbor Blvd. It would get you just as close to anywhere the Fixed Guideway Project is going to take riders.

You could have the bus turn into ARTIC's bus stop facility, but I don't know what that is going to look like.

Rapid buses doing well by the way: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091202/NEWS01/712029859

Here is a custom map on Google Maps illustrating some of my thoughts of a rapid bus line on Katella Ave. vs the Fixed-Guideway project.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=111791154239862255567.000479e36cf92ac35486a&ll=33.805575,-117.896047&spn=0.020326,0.045447&t=h&z=15

Let me know what you think.

Of course this is for tourists - the Jones family from Omaha who is afraid of LA but has a hotel room in Hollywood and wants to come to Disneyland without driving. Nebraska tourists aren't going to take a bus anywhere. I suppose if Disney could get enough of its visitors to arrive via transit they could get rid of some of their surface parking lots and build something that makes them more money. I wonder if Disney could extend their own monorail over to the garden walk area. Then in addition to Tomorrowland we could have Transitland!

> I wonder if Disney could extend their own monorail over to the garden walk area.

I think it would be better if Disney built a second line. The existing line would remain as it is for shuttling people between Downtown Disney and Tomorrowland The new line could connect Downtown Disney to Garden Walk and maybe go as far as the Artic, the third gate and International West (if those ever gets built). Maybe a third line could go to John Wayne Airport, with stops at The Block, Main Place and South Coast Plaza (with partial funding by the malls).

Disney building a second monorail line is completely out of the question. They haven't extended the monorail at Disney World since the 80s. Also, they don't pay for public infrastructure.

"Nebraska tourists aren't going to take a bus anywhere."

Give the segment of the bus route that would take them to the resort area a snappy name. If the bus platform is right next to the train platform, and the service is advertised correctly, some people will use it. The ridership benefits of a monorail, which isn't that hot on capacity compared to a bus, are only marginal.

Also, if the family in the hotel in Hollywood wants to get to Disneyland without driving, they'll have to take the Red Line. So yes, they'll have to endure some of us common folk. We shouldn't be building exclusive mass transit options for people who hate other people.

They should extend this down Beach Blvd to the ocean. Actually, anywhere near the beach would be fine including down Harbor Blvd. Of course, that is where the tourists want to go right after Disneyland. But those two streets need any kind of rail to get the buses off of the gridlocked streets. Monorail has a smallest footprint. Dedicated bus lanes and light rail are fine too, but not in the central county area. There is just no room on these heavily travelled streets that have tons of transit riders too.

I agree with Spokker. And Chris and Damon, you'd be surprised: take a look at the Disneyworld Express and the Disney Transport bus system. Disneyworld operates a very popular standing-room only bus system in between their theme parks and all their hotels that has only two stops: your starting theme park/hotel, and your destination theme park/hotel. Megabus, Boltbus, etc. on the East Coast are having booming business.

So I don't buy this (and other rail proponents') argument that "buses are seen as inferior." Buses are seen as inferior in our area b/c OCTA doesn't do a good job publicizing their buses, the bus infrastructure isn't there (e.g. Metro has whole bus STATIONS with signs and elevators, while all we have are curbside bus stops), and OCTA buses don't have snazzy names. OCTA staff tried with the Bravo Blue Line, Red Line, and Green Line, but for some reason the OCTA board voted against it so we were about to have Line 543, 557, and 560.

Not very sexy.

 Looking at Spokker's bus system... looks very similar to what OCTA was thinking with the Katella rapid bus:

It is sad to see Bravo dying a slow death. Light rail for OC would have been great, but a good "BRT" fast bus system could have done most of the work, at least for the first few years. If the whole initial and future Bravo network were built out (Harbor, Bristol, Beach, Katella, Westminster, Imperial...) it would have been great. If OCTA would give a whole lanes to buses on each of the Bravo routes and give buses signal priority, it would be about as fast as surface light-rail, for a fairly small capital cost (though operations would be just as expensive as light rail).

Unfortunately, they only have money to add 4 or 5 more lanes to every single freeway. Sorry, no money for transit.

We have garbage!

Look at Transit that means business!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRGoketbIZE&feature=related
Thats in Bogotá no less!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0Z_xP5sWGk&feature=related
Thats elevated in Sao Paulo!

We of course are in the boondocks of some third world county.

Tony Cynor

Very nice!

So what would it take to bring a BRT system like that to Orange County? Not Bravo!, but a _TRUE_ BRT system.

Metro is opening its second BRT line, the Silver Line, with full bus stations along the freeway. Yes, about half of it runs on a carpool lane, and the downtown half doesn't, but they've got bus stations with elevators, shelters, and connections with light rail.

I think the Orange County should do something similar: all its carpool lanes should have bus stations along all transfer points too. Imagine being able to hop on BRT from, say, the San Clemente Pier Station on freeway 5 all the way to the Ball/I-5 station to grab some grub at Downtown Disney. Then, take the BRT along the 5, connect to the 55, then to the Macarthur/I-405 station, where you can catch a flight. Forget OCTA's half-assed Metrolink and Express shuttles like the 211 that runs 2 times a day and go from nowhere (Leisure World, a senior center) to — well, kinda — nowhere (business parks in Mission Viejo).

We already have super-wide freeways, and OCTA has (misnomer or not) called these carpool lanes "fixed guideways / transitways" already for federal funding purposes.

The Silver Line isn't true BRT because nowhere does it have a dedicated right of way. Between Artesia Transit Center and downtown it operates on the Harbor Transitway which is also a couple of carpool lanes. Between El Monte and downtown it runs in the El Monte Busway, which is also a 3+ carpool lane during rush hour (2+ all other times).

It technically shouldn't be called the Silver Line because it's not on a dedicated right of way, but I can see how it makes the route more visible and easier to use.

 ...but I think that adding stations along carpool lanes would be much better than being stuck on a bus in slower, local traffic and miles and miles of traffic signals. The average speed of Metro's Orange Line, which runs on a dedicated right-of-way, is ~21 MPH (according to Metro's presentation at http://www.metro.net/projects_studies/orange/images/canoga-park-community-presentation-1028-2009.pdf ). I'm thinking that speeds on the Silver Line's transitway — Metro's target speed for their transitway ExpressLane project is 45 mph — would be 21 MPH or better.

I think that adding stations along OC's carpool lanes is much easier for commuters and politicians to swallow than taking away lanes from our precious drivers. :)

And yes, calling this the Silver Line is also a marketing ploy. A very sexy one!

There is too much crowding and congestion in Orange Couty for solutions that involve busses. Most end up sitting in traffic with everybody else. The idea that Disneyworld is anything like the now heavily urbanized north Orange County is ridiculous. That is why we need elevated urban rail -- we don't have a lot of space -- we have to get cars off of the roads, and then get rid of the roads. We don't have room.

I agree that we need elevated rail to connect Anaheim's attractions with the rest of OC and the outside world. Not so sure that monorail is the best solution for $500 Million. If they insist on monorail maybe they should get Disney to build it. Theirs didn't cost anywhere near that much when factored for distance. More importantly we need separated and elevated trains to run west from Anaheim or Tustin or Irvine to Long Beach and beyond.

Isn't funding for Go Local projects WRITTEN IN to Measure M?

"Construction and implementation will begin on the projects during the third step of the program. In this step, cities compete for $1 billion in funds from Renewed Measure M"

Go Local funding is peanuts compared to freeway expansion funding. How about ranting against the massive disparity in transit and highway funding instead of lambasting a clearly progressive effort at local integration into the larger transportation network? It is not up to Anaheim to revitalize the entire county's system, they are simply endorsing the plan they think best suits their city.

By the way, what's slower: A monorail, or a BRT bus at an intersection that's blocked due to an accident?